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Thursday, 28 June 2012 09:27

Obamacare and SCOTUS: Why are Progressives Celebrating a 54 billion dollar tax hike on low-income families

By:  Obey

The rationale offered by the Supreme Court in upholding the insurance mandate provisions of the health care reform law known as Obamacare hinged on regarding the mandate, and its related penalties for not buying insurance, as functionally equivalent to a tax.

The law does not depend on the mandate to contain health care costs. That can be done by liberalizing trade of prescription drugs and other measures. It does not depend on the mandate to avoid the problem of free-riders. That  is already done by narrowing the window during which one can enter the insurance market every year.

The law depends on the mandate because a good chunk of the revenue to pay for subsidized private-label insurance comes from fines – or, as SCOTUS would have it, taxes – paid by those households too poor to pay for insurance under the new program.

How much are the mandate provisions expected to raise in federal revenue? According to the non-partisan CBO (see table 2 here) the mandate-related penalties for those too poor to afford insurance will amount to 54 billion dollars over the 2012-2022 period.

It is, in other words, a way of implementing a highly regressive tax to fund the coverage expansion. And it is, as such, a highly unfair way to pay for that program: it takes from low-income families who will be denied medical insurance to help other low-income families pay for theirs.

All of which leaves me perplexed as to why progressives, and democrats more generally, are celebrating the fact that SCOTUS ruled in favor of these provisions. Surely the 54 billion in revenues can be collected in some other, fairer, way.

(And just to put the new 54 billion dollar tax on low-income families in context: the tax on big banks implemented to recover TARP-related losses is estimated by Treasury to collect in all 41 billion dollars.

Surely bankers deserve to bear the burden of mitigating the poverty-inducing effects of their actions rather than low-income households whose financial troubles, and consequent lack of health insurance, are largely caused by the bankers’ malfeasance and fraud)

 

Crossposted at MyFDL)

Last modified on Thursday, 28 June 2012 09:54

comments  

 
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[-] Michael Cavlan RN 2012-06-28 09:58   (permalink)
We are not but since some of us have been banned at firedoglake, you would never know it.

Just sayin'.
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[-] Obey or not obey 2012-06-28 10:06   (permalink)
Replying to: Michael Cavlan RN
Nice to see you here Michael!
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 10:08   (permalink)
Replying to: Michael Cavlan RN
Hey, Michael Cavlan; welcome! (Didja get this link offa my Posterous?)
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 10:11   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Ack! Just went back to look; Obi-wan gave the cross-post address! (Grin, chortle, chuckle; now we'll be scrutinized, lol!)
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[-] Obey or not obey 2012-06-28 10:29   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Well, is that a problem? Does their TOS say they will ban us for what is said elsewhere on the internet?
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 10:38   (permalink)
Replying to: Obey or not obey
No, no; I love it; I had just wondered if Michael got the web address offa my Posterous today or awhile back (it jogged Crane-Station to come back over, too.) . Just reminded me of RaMOna and Genghis reading at my Posterous, and Genghis telling me that the only way I'd ever be allowed to just comment there again was if I would stop dissing Dagblog, and signing a new TOS agreement to that effect.

Needless to say, I said, 'Thanks, but no thanks. What fuckery; y'all are crazy with yer wildly unequal moderations.'
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[-] Obey or not obey 2012-06-28 10:46   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Wow. gotta love those Daggers...
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[-] Obey or not obey 2012-06-28 10:47   (permalink)
Replying to: Obey or not obey
as in ... you literally have to love them, and sign a contract to that effect, if you want to comment there. ROTFLOL.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 11:16   (permalink)
Replying to: Obey or not obey
Yup. Pretty embarrassing, really; *for them*!

Des once sent me the texts of a flurry of emails with Genghis; he'd say stuff like 'And you let TMcCarthy run around pretending she's an intellectual..."

Remember:

Dateline: Tokyto Airport? LOL. And I countered with

'Dateline: Dove Creek Outhouse' er somethin'...? Lord love a duck, what a place. |8)|
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-28 10:37   (permalink)
Yeah. One of the most fucking cynical parts of the whole deal. I call them the "permanently uninsured by design". The most depressing part is that making this group larger was what they used to fill the hole in the CBO score (along with the excise tax) created by axing a public option.

I'm pretty sure during the debates it was determined that many of these people are rural whites ... and they're fucking racists who've had it too good too long anyhow, so, they deserve it - fuck 'em. I'm putting it crassly ... but that really was the tenor of many responses I got when raising the point back in the TPM days.
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[-] Obey or not obey 2012-06-28 15:11   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
Quote:
I'm pretty sure during the debates it was determined that many of these people are rural whites


Really? That would explain a lot about the general flippancy I'm sensing about who gets hit by this 'tax'. I have a few friends in NY and LA who look at the figures and don't think they can afford insurance. And it's not like they're sitting pretty and burning all their cash on blow. They just can't afford it. Most people *have to* know this... I don't get it.
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[-] Michael Cavlan RN 2012-06-28 11:06   (permalink)
Hey Wendy and All.

Got the link from the article at firedoglake. Just so that you all know- our campaign is issuing a public statement on it very soon.

They are freaking pissed. Me- I expected it and am used to it. Grin- Badge of Honor and all that.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 11:17   (permalink)
Replying to: Michael Cavlan RN
I figured it out later; Slow Brain Syndrome.
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[-] Michael Cavlan RN 2012-06-28 11:41   (permalink)
Wendy- I admire and check out yer posterous all the time- LOL

Ignore me. I am harmless and happily married-LOL
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 13:06   (permalink)
Replying to: Michael Cavlan RN
I couldn't possibly comment on your comment.
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-28 13:33   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Posterous--sounds like a large, reptilian posterior. Just sayin' . . .
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 13:40   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
Got Michael's allusion, dear; the 'happily-married' was the Ewww factor.

Just so's ya know, I dinnae name it, but yes; my posterior looks just like a dinosaur's ass. And a dinosaur-ass-cramp is nothin' to sneeze at.

And didjer 'Grrrrrr!!!!' mean anything, ya grumpy ole b'ar?

(Get that fourth-grader ta pop off the Enter key and clean under there?) Or disconnect all the wires, and tip the laptop upside down, see if'n a dead bug falls out?)
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-28 13:51   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Why do you hate paleontologists?
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[-] Obey or not obey 2012-06-28 15:15   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
Because they're pale and ontology sucks balls!!! Srsly, ever met an ontologist? They're like the accountants, nay the back-office staff, of the -ology world.

(and fix your space bar too, dude...)
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 15:25   (permalink)
Replying to: Obey or not obey
What he said (even though I had to google 'ontology'), the goddam Master Eruditer.)

I say: OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

(Don't ban me, bro!)
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[-] Obey or not obey 2012-06-28 15:31   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
I once almost got abducted by a group of medical ontologists from Buffalo. Tried to force me to join their merry band but I said I'd rather shoot myself. True story. Ish...
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 15:47   (permalink)
Replying to: Obey or not obey
Er...are medical ontologists all Hallucinators of the First Order? And if so, why da fook would ya wanna hang out in Buffalo? Why not...New Jersey?

Ish to all of it, though.
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[-] Obey or not obey 2012-06-28 16:06   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Well the idea of hanging out in Buffalo was a big part of why I wanted to shoot myself. And for some wierd reason I love Jersey. But there's big money in medical ontology. Or big money ... for a starving philosopher. Somehow somebody managed to convince the HC industry they needed ontology. Some crap about structuring efficient databases. ... or something.
;0)
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-28 17:42   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
The only place "Why not New Jersey?" should ever be seen is on a headstone.
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-28 17:34   (permalink)
Replying to: Obey or not obey
Clinton was an ontologist, totally dedicated to figuring out what is is. But, no, I never met him. Space bar? I didn't know they had bears in space. Any more comments of this ilk and I shall demand that we trade computers. Then you can be the one getting his balls broiled.
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-28 17:40   (permalink)
Replying to: Obey or not obey
Hey, was "back-office staff" meant to be a filthy sexual reference? If so, I only missed it because I was trying to figure out where proctology fit in to your -ology universe.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 13:48   (permalink)
Just cross-posted this over yonder:

This dreck (includes a video I cannae watch) just came to my Inbox from the WH, ottogrendell.

Note that the bullet points are all designed around ‘hard-working members of the middle class’, nauseating as some of the points are.

OTOH, Lambert Strether speaks of ‘Obamacare, the Market State, and Nudge Theory’ (a new one to me, Orwellian behavioral theory framing).

Yves’ intro says:

“One striking bit is that the Supreme Court left the penalties for not obtaining insurance in place by designating it a tax, but then struck down enforcement mechanisms against states who fail to offer expanded Medicare.

Lambert highlights the fact that this decision undercuts the ability of the Federal government to use tax as a tool to promote social goals. The irony is the Obama administration was already there as far as banks are concerned. “

Lambert:

“Oh, and all the yammering from career “progressives” about how ObamaCare is a step towards a greater reform, or even single payer/Medicare for All, obscures the central issue: The change in the constitutional order. That’s their job, of course; no harm done if you take no account of their policy decoys.”
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-28 14:01   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Quote:
Nudge Theory’ (a new one to me, Orwellian behavioral theory framing).

Was just mentioning that on a Jon Walker thread about how "opt-out" could totally replace the mandates. It's a Cass Sunstein thing ... he wrote a book with that title (one I've actually read ... surprisingly).

At the time I was impressed because it lays out many of the choice architecture issues that go into effective UI design - I would still probably recommend it as a decent resource for anyone who teaches development/engineering touching on user interfaces. But there's this other weird political-application aspect to his ideas that doesn't necessarily follow ... and certainly isn't implicitly desirable. The implications made me even more uneasy when he got the job he did with Obama.

He calls the approach "paternalistic libertarianism" ... I guess I'm not the only one that noticed they're trying to make it policy.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 14:15   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
Yep; the Time author mentions Sunstein and others:

"The existence of this behavioral dream team — which also included best-selling authors Dan Ariely of MIT (Predictably Irrational) and Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein of the University of Chicago (Nudge) as well as Nobel laureate Daniel Kahneman of Princeton — has never been publicly disclosed, even though its members gave Obama white papers on messaging, fundraising and rumor control as well as voter mobilization. All their proposals — among them the famous online fundraising lotteries that gave small donors a chance to win face time with Obama — came with footnotes to peer-reviewed academic research. "It was amazing to have these bullet points telling us what to do and the science behind it," Moffo tells TIME. "These guys really know what makes people tick."

President Obama is still relying on behavioral science. But now his Administration is using it to try to transform the country. Because when you know what makes people tick, it's a lot easier to help them change."

And the changes? More Ewwwww.

Ya read it though? Awesome. I've only made it through the first page of the Time piece...might be enough for the time bein'.

Is it hard to fix the video embeds, or am I the only one who can't make it work since my Flashplayer er somethin' isn't workin'? And please know I'm not complaining...
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-28 14:22   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
I'm not having trouble ...

This seems a good selection for the thread ...



Did it work for you?
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-28 14:23   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
Oh damn. Leonard's pissed I stole his Fedora and won't play in our teeny tiny embedded player!

Hrrrrmph.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 14:28   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
Worked fine fer me as long as I like Big White Spaces, lol!

(Do you see a video, or are ya gaslightin' me, not that that's hard ta do...?)
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-28 14:40   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Yeah. I see a video - like usual with the little play button on it. But then when I click play it says the player's too small and makes me go to Youtube.

You should have seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUfS8LyeUyM
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 15:01   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
I didn't, but when I click into youtube, if the video has a Play arrow-button, and I click it, it says an error has occurred, no dice.

Happens for a whole lotta them. Some I chose from the associated ones on the right will play. When the my.fld mods fool around with my resized-smaller videos on my posts to do the word-wrap-around, all I see is a black box.

I did the go-back program twice, hoping I could neutralize the Flashplayer update, but either that wasn't the problem (happened the same morning, though) or...it wasn't what caused the glitch. I've uninstalled my Flashpayer twice, dowloaded new ones...nyet. I srsly don't like not having youtube capability. Cramps (so to speak) mah style.
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-28 15:13   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
What web browser are you using?

Also ... I made it huge ... does it appear now?
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 15:22   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
Sorry, lol; the double entendres are makin' me laugh. Firefox, and no, I cannae see it, just a larger white space.

To coin a phrase: 'It's me, not you', lol!

And I was 'ewwwing' the cynical concept, not the changes per se, though the idea that WE should change to love his Fuckedness is rank to the Nth degree. And this shit is the only reason I EVER blog about OBomba. I hate politics, so I usually write on issues instead.
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-28 14:36   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Quote:
"Because when you know what makes people tick, it's a lot easier to help them change."

I thought the fucker was supposed to be helping us realize our dreams ... or something ...

What the hell! He was supposed to change Washington for us ... not change us for Washington.

It doesn't even matter if the changes are "eeeew" ... the entire premise just totally spits in the eye of the concept behind representative democracy - how does it maintain legitimacy?
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 18:34   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
Mirroring that backwards framing, last week BAR had denounced this OBomba radio ad, and I found it on youtube, almost put it up as further evidence of his whiney needs. I

Blacks are supposed to 'have HIS back'. Dunno much about the Black Caucus walking out on the Holder censure or investigation on the Guns to Mexico stings, whatever, but it may be identity politics writ sick.

(Shoot; I can't even get the youtube to embed...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbH8XnAEmZI
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-28 19:08   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Holy crap. Could the SuperFly soundtrack and Barry White narrator be any more 1980s-style stereotypical?

I dunno what BAR is ... but I take it this one didn't go over well?
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-28 20:00   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
Black Agenda Report, and noooooo; they were livid, but they are also grossed out by the entire national black political class, and display their disgust pretty openly.

They had a video up for awhile, might have been one by Treble Army (a couple on the right side of the main page), that I reckoned wouldn't be permitted at FDL since it used black themed-parodies to trash the Prez. Don't see it up now, but it was no-holds-barred.

The Lullabomb one: can't tell if the scene with the rapist soldier in the shrink's office is staged or what; hate to be that clueless, but it might have been from a film or documentary. But the soldier's comments are chilling because they ring so true, and in some ways, speak to the 'enemy' demonization/dehumanization process that could create such a skewed personal defense of rape, which the guy sees as...lesser than 'killing ragheads' or whatever term.

Anyway, maybe I shouldn't have even spotlighted it, but the BAR folks are radical.

Night night; I'm for sleep, deah. ;o)
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 04:37   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
You all might be interested in watching this; finally remembered Ellen DeGeneres and dance (disco). If whiteys made it... ;o)

Treble Army. Hold on to yer hats. (black Stetsons)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK6D3HIFne8
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[-] Obey or not obey 2012-06-28 15:19   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
Have you seen any of the policy implementations of the nudge stuff. I know Ariely's stuff pretty well, and it sounds creepy, and maybe can be used to do creepy things. But overall seems pretty commonsensical in terms of overcoming certain irrational proclivities. I'd like to see what they've done with it...
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[-] Bruce 2012-06-28 14:11   (permalink)
I KNEW the $upreme ¢ourt would $¢OTU$! Cancel elective "insurance" policies in retaliation NOW (while you can, before they're also Obamanably mandated).
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-28 14:42   (permalink)
Replying to: Bruce
Hmmmm ... then what?
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[-] Obey or not obey 2012-06-28 15:21   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
I think you need some gnomes and some underpants for the next part.

And then some political goal for the third part.

But, hey, it's a good start.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 04:28   (permalink)
Replying to: Bruce
Dunno how to ask this without sounding bigoted and paranoid, but...are you an actual person?
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[-] Michael Cavlan RN 2012-06-28 20:28   (permalink)
My Gawd-

I LOVE YOU GUYS. I have not lost my FDL family at all.

As for Jane- well her credibility and journalistic ethics and integrity are in the toilet. Does she not realize that?

Hey- tell Phoenix Woman I said hello--lolol
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-29 04:39   (permalink)
OT, but, as an act of mercy, could somebody please skip over to My.FDL and put Captain Ahab out of his misery? Please. After revealing in comments a few days ago that he had no clue about the purpose of hollow point bullets (which Zimmerman used), and did not know what cop-killer bullets are, or the difference between the two, this morning he further demonstrates his total gun-ignorance by premising an entire post on the assumption that the only way one can "aim" a gun is by extending the arm until the elbow is straight out, even when the person being aimed at is in direct contact with the target. He then uses that idiocy as basis to assert that Zimmerman has confessed his guilt. Really. How embarrassing to keep crowing about one's extensive experience and unchallengeable credibility, and then write a whole library about a gun case, all while apparently having never held, or perhaps even seen, a gun. Sheeeeeeesh!! Somebody, anybody, it's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 06:27   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
You may more precisely mean is 'would someone put *you* out of your misery. He's havin' a ball, even exhibited some regret that he hadn't seen Z's implicit confession earlier. ;o)

Dunno the difference between 'aim' (as using the sight, etc.) and 'point and shoot', nor the semantics makin' much difference to a guy who probably wasn't an English major.

Next trope? |8)|

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBM82Ju2kJU
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-29 08:03   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Maybe when a guy is on top of you, "aim" just means that after you get the gun out of your hip holster, you simply turn it with your wrist just enough to not shoot yourself in the hip or leg. Amazing that he has 6 comments so far, and none of them question this idiocy at all. I agree he's having a ball, but so is every demented person who smears feces on the wall lol. Does that alone mean you don't intervene?
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 08:30   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
I agree what 'aim' would have meant in this case: point the barrel that-a-way. Didn't read the comments, but among the folks here, I believe only Obey and kgb have offered alternative logical arguments and pushback.

Admittedly, I had reservations that Mason (or other commenters on the thread) could be fully versed in forensic evidence, even in the single fields of blood and DNA evidence. All the specialties of forensics seem to be pretty complicated and nuanced.

Dunno if the metaphor is quite right, and I offer this having skipped most of the TM posts, but it may be more accurate to imagine 'smearing feces (or mud) on the windows, rather obscuring the light, not bringing it.

Nope; didn't imply the fun meant either intervening or not (clearly I don't give a crap, and don't intend to care more). I was just implying that he's not 'in misery' as your plea connoted.

Meanwhile, I've been reading a 2001 report on COINTELPRO (Paul Wolf and some of the members of the CBC) that's chilling me to the bone, since the same shit different day is going on now with Occupy, political prisoners of all colors, and any dissidence in this country, Obama is apparently busy aiding the wrong side in Honduras and countless other places around the globe...a million other badass things are happening...and that case is sucking up so much of the oxygen in the room. Makes me kinda woozey, ta say the truth.
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-29 08:49   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
OK, OK, have it your way, the feces are on the windows. Satisfied? I guess I just meant somebody should stop him, it's an embarrassing spectacle overall, like the optometrist who fell into the glass grinder and made a spectacle of himself lol. As to your other concern, honey, W.A.S.F.
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-29 10:03   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
There isn't really much of a 'right' side in Honduras. Both abuse the living shit out of the idea of the rule of law and then throw their hands up in mock horror at the others' alleged disregard for their constitution.

I spent hours and hours translating Spanish documents and news reports (yay internets!) trying to get to the bottom of the real story there. I'll tell you this - the misinformation from the so-called "left-wing" press discredited them in my mind to the point where I'd believe a press release written by Micheletti as soon as believe those groups calling themselves "human rights organizations" in the area. That's like calling the CIA a good governance consultant.

It turns out ... getting manipulated by a second-rate wannabe imperialist isn't any more democratic than getting manipulated by the USA. Those poor people are basically stuck between a cobra and a rattlesnake.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 10:23   (permalink)
Replying to: lazy kgb
Mind taking a look at this, let me know what you think?

Is Reporters without borders suspect, too?

Aaaaand...how can i find out which version of IE I use? Found some hints, mebbe, on how to temporarily fix my flashplayer problems, though none of those google hits ever have dates; that might make it clearer, god forbid. ;o)
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 10:24   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Oh, and how great is that you're so fluent in Spanish?
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-29 10:55   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
It would be great if that were the case. I pull it off by cross-referencing the results with three auto-translators and then hitting up a couple friends for the parts I can't do on my own.

It was a *very* laborious process. Worst by far are scanned documents ... no cut-past, nothin!
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-29 11:47   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
If that's typical of how they are approaching their work, yeah ... I'd say cross-reference with contemporaneous information a bit rather than just accept their pronouncements as well-vetted fact.

This seems garden variety agit-prop for the most part. A few facts and a whole shit-ton of confirmation-bias targeted unsupported conclusions presented using language certain to inflame the audience into even more righteously believing what they already believed .... slathered with horribly inaccurate assertions about the nature and reality of what happened with the whole Zelaya thing.

The genre is honestly difficult for me to slog through. Their focus (at least in this piece) doesn't seem to be about Human Rights so much (or even the journalist killings that the piece is maybe actually about) - their focus is on a very specific political outcome they would like to have seen, of which only one outcome would have been acceptable. Everything is contextualized into those terms.

I mostly put it in the same box where I'm holding Mason's Travyon Martin coverage ... with the caveat that they really do spend about seven sentences on an important murder epidemic happening in Honduras. I haven't checked in on the situation recently ... but when I was following it; they have an undercurrent of *very* violent crime popping up amidst the political reporting that seems to be on an arc not entirely under the influence of national politics. I remember this one incident where a family's truck was hit with a grenade, caught on fire ... the passengers picked off with AKs as they escaped the flames, and then the assailants came in and hacked 'em with machetes to finish 'em off - over a land dispute. I'd hesitate to characterize the killings they highlight without a lot more information. It *could* be political ... or it *could* be a Mexico-style warlords issue ... or it *could* be a combination of both (what I suspect is likely the case). My guess is that it is militarized factions tied to organized crime who in turn have links to various political players fighting for control more than some strategic central government campaign to slaughter dissenters.

The political situation sure isn't as black-and white as the certitude shown in this piece, IMO. That said. I'm not supportive of our approach to the drug war ... so I am on the same page with them in that I'd like to see our policy and approach drastically change on it.
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-29 11:49   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Oh ... check your version of ie by going to the "Help" menu and selecting "About Internet Explorer"
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 11:52   (permalink)
Replying to: lazy kgb
Ta, dear, on both counts; I'll reread, and check the Help menu. ;o)
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-29 15:12   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
I lost the draft - with a shitton of Honduran news links (helpfully pre-fed through Google translate even) - on some really important, yet, unmentioned stuff leading up to that coup/countercoup/whatever deal when the death of TPM cafe happened. Got there in time to rescue my published diaries, but lost everything I'd been working on as drafts (a net neutrality thing too! grrr). But here's a quickie (well ...):

Best I can tell the situation really started the previous September. Their constitution requires the president to submit a budget by the 15th(ish) which the legislature must ratify by the following Jan 15th(ish). Zelaya just refused to submit it - playing off of a weakness in their constitution that there isn't much legislature can do. This set up a situation much like our debt ceiling thing - and forced government departments to stretch budgets in case politics halted revenue allocation (important in context because the rhetoric involved government inability to provide adequate services).

So January comes and no budget. Zelaya uses the fact that the executive is the nation's treasurer (and therefore signs on the accounts) to just start funding on an ad-hoc basis without a constitutional budget presented or approved while bragging that the legislature won't even get enough funding to purchase a cup of coffee. He basically tapped the Petrocarbide account - claiming it was not strictly under budgetary control (if I recall right) - which was kept full through an oil-subsidy deal with Chavez. About this time he announces that there will be a popular vote taken on forming a constitutional assembly. He uses his position in control of the nation's bank accounts to issue a demand that the electoral court facilitate his proposed votes - or funding would not be provided for the scheduled national elections - or even for the functioning of the court.

Somewhere in here there's court proceedings on the constitutional issues related to his refusal to issue a budget - which, obviously, end with him being found in breach of constitutional responsibility. And the issue of his constitutional assembly is challenged.

One crazy thing about Honduras is how many different constitutions they've had. It's like maybe 12 years on average - single digits if you don't count this last one (which is the longest-standing they've had since the 1800's when they first got one). And every single time, the reason they get a new one is to help a president solidify control of national politics. Their constitution's structure reflects a strong desire to make that impossible. It sets out a specific procedure for making changes and declares those procedures as the only constitutionally permissible method for change - explicitly addressing attempts to win constitutional change by repeal unconstitutional (with a reinstatement clause). The constitution sets out two things that are nu-amendable: the provisions that require change happen through constitutional procedure and prohibit attempts to repeal *this* constitution, and the ones relating to presidential term limits.

So. Of course, every court in the land slaps down his assembly idea. Because it's like about as unconstitutional as it could possibly be. Meanwhile, he's got deadlines looming that involve potential removal from office on the budget thing (which he was warned about in January) and the nation's finances are in a shamble - playing right into the assertion they didn't give a damn about helping the nation's problems. With Zelaya playing the literal white-hat on a horse with bags of money promising them everything they want.

Long story longer, he loses every damn appeal on the constituent assembly vote and is issued an explicit restraining order prohibiting taking action on it. So he decides to re-name it a plebiscite - publishes with the *exact* same verbiage. Courts issue another restraining order saying the action violated the constitution (which, it really seems like it does). Even his own lawyer admits going forward would be illegal.

So, Zelaya gets materials published anyhow and they show up at the military airport a couple of days before he wants the vote to occur (rumored to have been "donated" by Chavez ... unclear how they were produced -- but it was outside the Honduran electoral authority) and the courts are pissed. They issue an order for ballots to be seized and an order for Zelaya to cease and desist and demand an explanation be given to the court. Instead, Zelaya rustles up a big crowd and storms the gates to rescue the ballots. Somewhere in there the AG quits (later to emerge as Zelaya's personal lawyer).

There was a flurry of court activity - can't unjumble it with specificity right now - but it all ended with the court ordering a formal proceeding for removal from office (breach of constitutional responsibility) and arrest on the charge of criminal contempt of lawful court rulings. Chain of command in the police was arguably compromised, so they invoked an article that allows the military to make arrests in the event of conflict of interest (or however it's worded) and ordered that he be arrested and brought before the court.

Instead the military spirited him out of the country for some reason. And that seems to be the *only* bit of the whole thing where Zelaya has moral high ground. By all measures it seems like the guy probably *should* have gone to jail for a while. He sure as hell wasn't under one iota of constitutional restraint.

Part of me can't shake the feeling it was an escape from arrest as much as it was a military coup. I mean, how much sympathy would he have had with a dry court proceeding in which is actions were so obviously against both the specific letter and clear spirit of the constitution? Zelaya is from one of the families known as Oligarchs ... his wife's family is even more powerful. I dunno. Of the two possible outcomes from that warrant - he got the one I'd have picked.

Wanting to know what that document released by the courts with the warrant actually *said* is what got me in to the whole translating mess ... and when I realized it didn't have a damn thing to do with Zelaya trying for another term at president, I started poking around. I'm pretty sure mine is still the only nominal English translation of that on the internets.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 20:13   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
Holy smoke, kgb; I can't believe you wrote all this, plus remembered so much! Again: can I rent some small portion of your memory?

It's late, and I'm about to head for bed. I...er...got confused about which day it was, and only realized when Steve told me when he got home that Aurora will be bringing Elijah down tomorrow, and staying for a few days. I thought Saturday was some day in the future... gah.

Anyhoo, I posted a piece over yonder, and will stick it here in the mornin'. Hope I don't nuke the place by mistake (really, I don't think I have: it was Obey who did). O:-)

G'night. And soooo sad you lost your drafts; that sucks, especially since it was a unique document. Grrrr is right.
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-29 22:08   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Heh. It sort of grew ... and then I was like fuckit. That court document thing touched off a back-forth with Neoboho through pretty much the whole ordeal. But those posts were all largely reactionary to events. Pretty sure that whole mess is at Dag (or at least my half; it would probably sort of seem a Yingless Yang without the opposing diaries, though)

I kind of always wanted to do a slower-paced non-reactionary post laying out how all the news-clippings told the story. Don't remember what I wanted to add (or maybe I was waiting for Honduras to come back around in discussion?) - but for whatever reason I didn't get it posted live. The way I read them challenges certain rote beliefs in such a way that I'd damn sure need all the links to make a post. And holy crap *searching* news sites in Spanish is HARD if you don't know the language.

So. I guess at least now there's an unsourced summary someone knows besides me. It really is kind of fascinating. Not only the budget stuff and all ... but that nobody in all of American media bothered to look back farther than June 26.

I swear, I honestly believe that there is not an iota of Spanish-language news capacity in our primary media. A few on-air personalities are bilingual - but they sure don't have the ability to process a Spanish-language document drop ... or even a Spanish-language document.

Reminded me of during Katrina when Kanye West asserted Bush was letting people die because they were black. Everyone who couldn't get Colin Powell was breaking out their production assistants and shit to find someone in the building to ask for a "black reaction". The obvious absence of African American participants in their operations was palpable.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-30 05:06   (permalink)
Replying to: lazy kgb
Jeez; Neoboho. What a flash from the past. Can't believe you were so diligent, given that you *don't* know Spanish well. There's a Spanish-language teevee station, isn't there? Is it just pop culture and soap opera stuff?

Hmmm; here's a list of Spanish newspapers. Not so 'primary media', are they?

The situation sounds not unlike Zardari's wife (forget her name; the one Condi begged to return to Pakistan, then...zzzt. Pigs of a different color, I guess. But duly elected (?), then overthrown.

My thing is the US intervenes, and always has in Central America...when US business interests are at stake. And that's my gripe. Chiquita Banana...seems here to stay.

Sorry to be in such a hurry; this subject is too complicated to address now.
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-30 10:21   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
I guess I probably should have said "English-language" media. For all I know the Spanish guys were top-notch? Radioglobo sure wasn't though!

I agree about us mucking around in Central America (and everywhere else) ... hell, my solution to the immigration problem (and employment to no small degree) is to stop empowering our corporations rape their economies so their citizens don't find themselves economic refugees and we've got entire populations with money to trade goods with.

But it seems we get into this mindset that there are no other actors beyond ourselves (and occasionally a Russia or a China) - that the self-interests and actions of the local people and "lesser" governments are unable to be the driving force behind events within a nation. It's always about us. I think that was one of the fundamental complaints from African victims of Joseph Kony in relation to the Kony2012 movie/campaign. We act like they are helpless children or something.

That's probably the basis of my biggest complaint about the self-described Human Rights groups I'm criticizing. It just seems like when peoples end up in conflict - the actual people and frictions in the conflict itself all but disappear and the situation is immediately seized and crammed into whatever box advances a larger long-held specific desire for a regional political outcome, or immediately in the box of America-as-Omnipotent-schemer-who-totally-controls-this-event.

I think both approaches often fall short of capturing the nuance of mass humanity.

My thing - as far as the region goes - is that we've had plenty of time to see outcomes now. Adopting Chavismo doesn't bring a stop to selling cut-rate produce harvested by wage-slaves to the highest market or address poverty or stop indigenous lands from being swamped by hydroelectric projects ... it just re-apportions resources to croniest slave-masters hand picked by autocratic leaders all Mugabe style (well, hopefully not Mugabe style - his cronies stopped working the land and now they don't have crap for food). And as with US corporatism - there are schemes that undermine the sovereignty of nations being actively pursued in the region by those who would profit from it being adopted. Cobra and Rattlesnake, IMO.
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-30 10:51   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Are you talking about Benazir Bhutto in Pakistan? She got blown up during the campaign. If we're talking about Zelaya, he was certainly duly elected.

His problem was that he skullfucked their constitution 10 ways to Sunday and totally ignored his official duties while pissing at the courts and legislature. In that case, the every-bit-as-duly-elected legislature (which is an awful lot more people who were voted into office than just a single man, BTW - a much larger representation of national democracy) and seemingly constitutionally legitimate judiciary moved to stop his behavior.
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-29 10:38   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Firearms are a ranged weapon - not designed for close quarters (hence the addition of bayonets to military long-arms). It isn't actually physically possible to "aim" in the "hold it up to my eye and look down the barrel and line it up" sense if a firearm is being used in melee combat.

Fortunately, I'm pretty sure in court this will be argued by legitimate experts.

The comical part of giving weight to "Zimmerman's Confession" is that the entire other line of prosecution they've been following draws heavily on asserting Zimmerman's statements were completely fabricated and discredited. That would seem to preclude this new approach out of hand. I guess all those *other* statements were lies, but *this* one is rock-solid believable. Dunno.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 10:49   (permalink)
Replying to: lazy kgb
'Legitimate experts', LOL!

And...I came back to say 'if you find the time to read Chris Floyd's piece'.

I'm crammed with chores, and have a post to write; might take me two days, arrrggh, at this rate. Yep; more indigenous stuff, as luck would have it. ;o)

(But that's one thing I noticed on M's diaries: *every* new piece of evidence ballasted a guilty verdict, even when eye-witness changed their testimonies, and every new piece...he'd imagined.

White Whales., indeed ;o)
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-29 11:24   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Heads I win, tails you lose. Pretty much sums up the whole series of diaries, and the way he has analyzed them. OK if he was a prosecutor, but he claims to be just analyzing as an esteemed legal expert. What a transparent crock of BS. When I analyze, I entertain all arguments on every side in good faith. That's the job you get trained and licensed to do. Anybody who's been thru legal training knows that Mason's bias has been consistent, relentless and, as kgb correctly notes, self-contradictory in many, many instances. It's really hard to watch. The synergy with the flying monkeys who urge him on only makes it worse.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 11:50   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
Kgb's logic is impeccable, as was yours.

And my point differentiating 'walls' from 'windows' was to me, the difference between inmates at Bedlam acting out by smearing excrement on the walls (maybe even creating some form of Art), and the folks on his threads applauding wildly any 'evidence' that leads to their preconceived verdict, which is not crazy, but has a whale of a lot (pun intended) to do to ballast a narrowly constructed worldview.

In this case, imo, the worldview has a lot to do with their personal identifications being healthy libruls/progressives who won't countenance any murder of a young black man who looks like an angel...and was carrying Skittles.

And again...missing the far wider angle/s of black colonization, cradle-to-prison pipeline, even OBomba's betrayal of blacks in every imaginable way, and skittering by how crap and relatively meaningless his tiny move on Immigration 'reform' was.

I did not actually know that as attorneys you were sworn to 'entertain all arguments on every side in good faith'. That's really interesting to hear, and I'll have to mull that over. Srsly.
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-29 12:22   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
You may be right on the audience. I think Mason's coverage started off pretty good though. He was seemingly dispassionate measuring up both the prosecution and defense - often exploring quite heavily how he'd argue Zimmerman's case with the evidence so far.

IMO (and I said this on his thread) he's emotionally invested now because he's pissed at Zimmerman. Not because of the murder - but because he thinks the whole collecting money and bail thing left his defense attorneys out to dry.

Usually he *has* to figure out how defend the bastard anyhow. Not this time. This time he can just refuse - and help put the guy "where he belongs." Must be a bit cathartic to be able to get even for once.

(The blog psychologist is in ... 5¢ please.)
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-29 13:40   (permalink)
Replying to: lazy kgb
Reply to kgb: I ws planning to be a psychologist once (double major in psych at NYU), but when I found out the competition was charging only 5 cents, I started looking for something more lucrative lol. Mason has been very good on other issues, complex issues, and I have learned from him, and told him so, which might be part of why I am so disappointed with him now. I know he can do much better. I think he went off the rails on this case much earlier than you indicate. E.g., right from the beginning, he has downplayed the significance of Z's wounds, he has never once questioned the girlfriend's version, even though she stayed silent for two weeks, and has an obvious bias as the girlfriend, many, many other indicators I saw early on. Your point about identifying with O'Mara may be right as far as it goes, but I was feeling like he needed challenging long before that became a factor. I would note that he has said he would die rather than defend himself against an attacker (that is extreme), and he has a clear hatred and ignorance of guns. That may also explain a lot.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 14:25   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
Oh, and meanwhile, this fire will.not,lie.down.at.night.

Fucker burned all night on the western end of the northernmost end; just woke from a nap to the sound of a heavy air tanker. They had all been understandably pulled off this fire to head to C Springs, so this was welcome to hear; hope they might hit it a few more times.

The plume is high, and I see what looks like flames beginning to crest the ridge. Given the crazy nature of this fire, that's bad; it can come this side on the north now if it feels like it.

Just looked out the door-to-the-missing-deck, and I can see a SEAT heading away from the plume, probably to reload slurry. When I was working in the garden earlier I saw a big skycrane come in; I'd hoped it might hit a few of the spots back of our place.

A few of the more active smokes' locations made me wonder if some seams of coal might be burning. The area behind us was a local mining site; not a few of the old-timers here mined coal 'on our backs the tunnels were so low', and not a few ended up with black lung.

Fucking killed us when some jerk bought the dry land below the mines and called his subdivsion 'Sacred Mountain Estates'. Purdy sacred, all right. We spent a lotta time on that mountain pullin' bottles and tins outta old mining trash piles here...findin' arrowheads and other Anasazi artifacts there... Can't remember now which stones, but ya could find flakes and tips that the experts say had to have been imported from the far south (Kokopelli-like traders).

Nah; they'll get it out again. Weird fire.

Anyhoo, I swear to god I'm too tired to bug out again, though we are sorta prepared now. Least I won't have to wear vintage baseball cards this time. ;oP
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-30 00:53   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Hopefully it isn't coal burning ... it would be nice if crap would just cool down a bit.

Fingers crossed on no bugging out. So, what was the final prognosis on the garden anyhow?
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-30 05:15   (permalink)
Replying to: lazy kgb
97 degrees yesterday again; rats. But the air support quashed that plume pretty well; guess they lit some of it themselves (pretty understandable), and mebbe it got away from them. Pretty twitchy still, looking at runs the fire *could* make to still reach here, but the danger seems to be decreasing (she sayed hopefully).

Garden: I was optimistic that half might be alive. Mainly it's the perennials that are, a few other things. I cut a bunch of stuff back yesterday in case the roots might still be viable. We're not even supposed to be using domestic (rural) water for our gardens now. So many idiots were using it to soak their places all week, even ones far from the fire. The motel owners said they'd go home at night and there'd be NO water at their place.

Damn, people can be selfish idiots. And they'd be watering in the heat of the afternoon, to boot, like that did any good at all.
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-30 00:48   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
Well, he certainly gets the Darwin award for his take on defending himself from an attacker, that's for sure.
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-30 01:09   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
Quote:
but when I found out the competition was charging only 5 cents, I started looking for something more lucrative

Yeah. That bitch Lucy really undermined profitability of the whole industry.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 14:11   (permalink)
Replying to: lazy kgb
Don't be so modest; that was fully worth $1.99 (my usual fee).

I didn't read many of the posts, so I dunno about the early 'fairness', etc.

Your take that now he's so pissed at Z, not for the 'murder', but because of his identification with the attorneys being hung out to dry financially is...a pretty self-serving non-introspection (there's a word I can't remember) that's dangerous to faux analysis, isn't it? Cathartic; oy. |8)|

I saw someone on the thread had mocked Jeralyn Merrit for her obsession to look at Z as innocent, or some such, then a row of guffaws, and accusations that's she's deleting comments that challenge her thinking. Same clouded refusal to look clearly at counter-arguments, I guess.
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-29 14:21   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
The irony meter registers off the scale on those threads-lots of comments accusing others of doing what the commenters themselves (and Mason) are clearly doing. Oh, introspection, where is thy sting?
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-30 01:03   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Yeah crazy obsession, that. Couldn't have a presumption of innocence or anything. That said, TalkLeft was doing something quite like Mason from the opposite direction last I checked.

It wouldn't surprise me comments are being deleted ... that's kind of how that site rolls.
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[-] lazy kgb 2012-06-30 01:06   (permalink)
Replying to: lazy kgb
Hey! An upside to this Zimmerman case is that I think it may have cured the almost irresistible desire I have to cram an "s" into innocence (at least temporarily).
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-30 14:10   (permalink)
Replying to: lazy kgb
I never looked at that site. I'm very selective lol.
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-29 13:26   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
Reply to wendydavis: Well, no analogy is perfect, I'd have crafted mine with greater care if I had known you would be so "anal" about it lol. You're right in what you say. In truth, I'm just tired of the case, and have been for a long time. I could probably list a couple hundred reasons why I just see it as a clusterfuck by now, and much of that view has to do with how Mason and other posters have dealt with it. Lawyers are not SWORN to analyze honestly, but they are supposed to have the capacity to do so. I'm a bit of a special case, I suppose, because I did a lot more cases working directly for the judges at the second-highest appeals court in New York than I did in private practice, so an impartial analysis was required of me on all those cases (they actually wanted me to find the truth, imagine that!), but every lawyer should know the difference between a biased analysis and an honest one. Mason has clearly lost his way as to that, a long time ago. Now that more evidence is coming to be known, I have no further interest. It is just one minority guy killing another, probably both acting like assholes, happens multiple times every damn day, only a cause celebre because people are determined to pretend Z is white, for reasons I cannot fathom, aside from the one I don't want to entertain, which is that his name sounds like it might be Jewish. I just could not stand silently by while an attempted media and blogosphere lynching was taking place without enough facts for anyone to possibly know the truth. And I could cite many, many specific instances where Mason put not only his thumb, but an entire hand and sometimes both feet on the scales as he was "analyzing." Silly me thought people would want to know it was wrong to do it that way.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-29 14:38   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
Cripes; it never even occurred to me that Zimmerman's a jewish name. Bob Zimmerman; duh.

Thanks for explaining 'not sworn' v. 'expected', and your particular circumstances with your work. I do see more fully why you were more used to being more impeccably logical and tested, rejected...conclusions that didn't hold up to scrutiny.

It may have been on Spaulding's post that people were actually droning on about the racial categories on census forms, not that many people of color don't go crazy at the designations they came up with in the end, lol!

And I didn't intend to be a fuss-budget about your allusion; it's just that the way my brain works now, words make mind-pictures, then it's my wont to follow them hither and yon, and I felt some stupid need to walk ya back from...Bedlam characterization to something far more human.

Shoot; a doe just brought her new fawn in; first of the season. A real 'Awwwwww' moment.
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-30 05:45   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
You never need to apologize for your "mind-pictures": your amazing ability to use imagery to get right into the center of a reader's soul (a talent I lack), was what drew me to you in the first place, darling. ;-)
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-30 07:29   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
Really kind of you, rc. It sure is a long-way-around-Dobbin's-barn sort of communication, though. Yikes.

Ya silly; when I told ya Rory would bring Ja 'on Saturday', I wish ya could have read my mind. Never realized that Saturday was the next day, lol! Can't even say I had an imagine when the hell it was, but...here it is, and I'm waaaay behind.

I just left DW a message on my present post over yonder to go to my 'personal blogsite' and I'd leave him a message on the first post. Which I did, inviting him here. Mebbe he will...come. ;o)
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-30 08:42   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
I would really love to maintain contact with DW, any way he would allow.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-30 08:56   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
'Mebbe he will (nothing)' above. Lord, my brain. Saw a little buck yesterday whose head was obscured by apple leaves. Though it was a dun-colored horse.

Guess I should be grateful I'm not wearin' my panties over my shorts, eh?

Anyhoo, I'd reckon he bookmarked my Posterous back then; I remember him saying to you that we'd meet there if we all got shit-canned. |:-xx|
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[-] realitychecker 2012-07-01 03:49   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
I don't want to mislead, in actuality I think I read that Z's father is German, not Jewish. But that name is most often associated with Jewish ethnicity (my best friend here in Atlanta is very Jewish, and named Zimmerman), and the left is often anti-Semitic IMO, and Jews are a major force in Florida.. I have just been baffled by all the energy poured into depicting Zimmerman as WHITE. I thought that as progressives, we favored both the black and Hispanic minoroties. But here, it's like they were jonesing to make it a race narrative, so they had to have a white villain. (Contrast to Obama, who is always depicted as black, despite being only half. Is there anything crazier than how we think about race in this country lol?)
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-29 06:05   (permalink)
I would suggest telling him that, while he may think he's pursuing the white whale, in fact he just jumped the shark lol.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-30 07:32   (permalink)
Q, realitychecker: I'd like to introduce you to each other. RC was one of the recent bannees at fdl. Baneees? Disappeareds? Banshees?

Q's to blame here for everything Obey didn't fuck up; rc fucks up, but knows how not to get caught. (learned New Jersey Rules early...)
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-30 08:47   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
I haven't got the knack yet of following comment threads here. Wendy, you are intoducing me to Qumulonimbus, who is "quinn, esq." at FDL? If that is right, good to know he (she?) is here, I always attended to his contributions at FDL, and recognized an alive mind. It's a pleasure. ;-)
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[-] Qumulonimbus 2012-06-30 16:10   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
Howdy y'all. I'm here and gone and round again these days, partly on the road, partly work, you know the tale. Be nice if more people could drop in. Lots of fine minds in here - Obey, KGB, Wendy, DesyDoo, that sort of thing. As for their moral qualifications, I can't vouch. Seem to me a likely buncha preverts, but there you go. It's the GM foods, I say.
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-30 18:25   (permalink)
Replying to: Qumulonimbus
I concur, Q; perversion is the natural by-product of almost-adaptation to GM foods. IO sleep on cotton sheets full of corn-borer bugs. Didn't know they crossed cotton and corn, didja?

Milo Minderbender: a man before his time, or: scifi presaging science.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcx-bSyJpYk
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-30 09:02   (permalink)
Yes, Q in all forms is Quinn, Esq. He pays us for the privilege of commenting here, though he hates it that we don't accept Loonies. Or hockey pucks.

And yes; his last long comment at my.fdl was pretty fuckin' grand, wasn't it? The Emotional Family Tree; did all his research at the Temple in Salt Lake City, New Jersey.
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[-] Sweet Murphee 2012-06-30 14:30   (permalink)
Hey wd & rc--



Take care.

SM
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-30 15:05   (permalink)
Replying to: Sweet Murphee
May the wind be at yer back, Murphee.

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[-] Sweet Murphee 2012-06-30 15:29   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
wd--

Meant to ask, is kgb the admin person here?



Later
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-30 15:59   (permalink)
Replying to: Sweet Murphee
I'm one, but I haven't many skills; kgb is da man. Whatd'ya need?
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[-] kgb999 2012-06-30 17:29   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
OK ... I took care of that.

Ordinarily, I'm against removing comments; but based on the nature of the request ... not much sense leaving that one posted - even with the hidden text. ;-)
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[-] Sweet Murphee 2012-06-30 17:50   (permalink)
Replying to: kgb999
Thank you so much, kgb.

SM
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[-] realitychecker 2012-06-30 16:16   (permalink)
Replying to: Sweet Murphee
Wonderful to see that you've found your way here. "Cleansing"? I believe the word you are searching for is "purge," dear.
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[-] Sweet Murphee 2012-06-30 16:45   (permalink)
Replying to: realitychecker
Thanks, rc. Wasn't hard--Obey's link, etc. Thought that I'd be polite, and ask kgb first, if he'd mind if I signed up, but, didn't think that I'd have time, under the circumstances. (We're going to be getting a property ready to sell ASAP. After the SCOTUS decision Thursday, me and Mr. Blue have decided that the gig's up, and we're not delaying leaving for South America until next September.) Anyway, I'm glad Obey linked it. It will take us at least 3-5 months, we figure. After what happened today, I'm very leary of FDL. (The Thursday decision bothers us because I heard Geithner testify months ago, that the Admin would go slow on MAJOR MEDICARE reform UNTIL they found out if ACA was constitutional. We are NOT going to sit around here while they raise the age for that to "70", too.

Hope Molly's doing well, and Mary got back home okay.

SM

Hey, this is probably a mess to read. Apologize. Not use to this window, and just plumb exhausted. Take care--
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[-] wendy davis 2012-06-30 16:48   (permalink)
Replying to: Sweet Murphee
Good lord; I gave ya this link via email; now I think yer trippin', woman.
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[-] Sweet Murphee 2012-06-30 16:58   (permalink)
Replying to: wendy davis
OK with me, whatever you did. Still can log in and out, under "SM."
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[-] Sweet Murphee 2012-06-30 17:00   (permalink)
Replying to: Sweet Murphee
You're right--the appropriate word is "purge."
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[-] realitychecker 2012-07-01 04:00   (permalink)
Replying to: Sweet Murphee
I am curious to know where in South America you intend to go, and what you found most appealing about that choice, if you get a minute. Mary's back, and Molly is still aroung, but not for much longer, I'm afraid, her eating is getting very spotty. My feeling of revulsion for FDL is getting stronger by the day, the only consolation being that soon their commenters may be limited to those discussing the weather and their chard recipes lol. And demi lifting her skirt, rhetorically, in a continual desperate bid for attention. ;-)
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